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	<title>Comments on: More State money for the Catholic church</title>
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	<link>http://www.primalsneeze.com/2009/02/13/more-state-money-for-the-catholic-church/</link>
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		<title>By: Primal Sneeze</title>
		<link>http://www.primalsneeze.com/2009/02/13/more-state-money-for-the-catholic-church/comment-page-1/#comment-6751</link>
		<dc:creator>Primal Sneeze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 07:48:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-6748&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Conan Drumm&lt;/a&gt; - I see what you&#039;re saying. The State hands over the dosh and has no say in how it&#039;s used. Seems the way the bank-bailout thing is going too.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6751&#039;,&#039;Primal Sneeze&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href='#comment-6748' rel="nofollow">@Conan Drumm</a> &#8211; I see what you&#8217;re saying. The State hands over the dosh and has no say in how it&#8217;s used. Seems the way the bank-bailout thing is going too.
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		<title>By: Conan Drumm</title>
		<link>http://www.primalsneeze.com/2009/02/13/more-state-money-for-the-catholic-church/comment-page-1/#comment-6748</link>
		<dc:creator>Conan Drumm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 14:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Rumours persist about Mary Hanafin&#039;s relations with Opus Dei, either as a member or as a co-operator - a non-member who aids and facilitates the Opus Dei agenda.

The proprietorial control of state-funded education and social services by Catholic organisations runs counter to principles of good government, since the funding confers a degree of liability on the state for services it has little or no authority over - as proven in the wholesale abuse of children in institutional care.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6748&#039;,&#039;Conan Drumm&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rumours persist about Mary Hanafin&#8217;s relations with Opus Dei, either as a member or as a co-operator &#8211; a non-member who aids and facilitates the Opus Dei agenda.</p>
<p>The proprietorial control of state-funded education and social services by Catholic organisations runs counter to principles of good government, since the funding confers a degree of liability on the state for services it has little or no authority over &#8211; as proven in the wholesale abuse of children in institutional care.
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		<title>By: aonghus</title>
		<link>http://www.primalsneeze.com/2009/02/13/more-state-money-for-the-catholic-church/comment-page-1/#comment-6739</link>
		<dc:creator>aonghus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 12:04:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>We&#039;ll have to agree to differ so.

I don&#039;t believe there is such a thing as &quot;unbiased relationships counselling&quot;. Any such counselling is going to have a built in bias - and I&#039;d far rather that that bias or assumption is clearly stated up front.

I&#039;d agree with you if other organisations were being excluded because they didn&#039;t fit the departments bias - but I don&#039;t believe that is the case.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6739&#039;,&#039;aonghus&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ll have to agree to differ so.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe there is such a thing as &#8220;unbiased relationships counselling&#8221;. Any such counselling is going to have a built in bias &#8211; and I&#8217;d far rather that that bias or assumption is clearly stated up front.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d agree with you if other organisations were being excluded because they didn&#8217;t fit the departments bias &#8211; but I don&#8217;t believe that is the case.
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		<title>By: Primal Sneeze</title>
		<link>http://www.primalsneeze.com/2009/02/13/more-state-money-for-the-catholic-church/comment-page-1/#comment-6735</link>
		<dc:creator>Primal Sneeze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Of course I&#039;m not saying that. All religions and creeds thereof are entitled these services as citizens - but not where it is funded by the State and where the organisation offering it has a particular bias.

To answer your second question, The Brewer&#039;s Droop Support Group.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6735&#039;,&#039;Primal Sneeze&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course I&#8217;m not saying that. All religions and creeds thereof are entitled these services as citizens &#8211; but not where it is funded by the State and where the organisation offering it has a particular bias.</p>
<p>To answer your second question, The Brewer&#8217;s Droop Support Group.
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		<title>By: aonghus</title>
		<link>http://www.primalsneeze.com/2009/02/13/more-state-money-for-the-catholic-church/comment-page-1/#comment-6732</link>
		<dc:creator>aonghus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 09:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>We&#039;re going around in circles here.

Are you saying that catholics are not entitled to counselling sympathetic to their beliefs? Because you don&#039;t share them?

What deserving organisations are not getting funds?

The vast majority in this country are still Catholic

http://beyond2020.cso.ie/Census/TableViewer/tableView.aspx?ReportId=74644&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6732&#039;,&#039;aonghus&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;re going around in circles here.</p>
<p>Are you saying that catholics are not entitled to counselling sympathetic to their beliefs? Because you don&#8217;t share them?</p>
<p>What deserving organisations are not getting funds?</p>
<p>The vast majority in this country are still Catholic</p>
<p><a href="http://beyond2020.cso.ie/Census/TableViewer/tableView.aspx?ReportId=74644" rel="nofollow">http://beyond2020.cso.ie/Census/TableViewer/tableView.aspx?ReportId=74644</a>
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		<title>By: Primal Sneeze</title>
		<link>http://www.primalsneeze.com/2009/02/13/more-state-money-for-the-catholic-church/comment-page-1/#comment-6730</link>
		<dc:creator>Primal Sneeze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 04:57:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You lads are working away grand there on your own, but I thought I&#039;d just nip for a second to say I would have done more research prior to posting had I the time.

One of my suspicions was that Accord was not the sole religious group to benefit. Another was the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.familylifecentre.ie/index.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Family Life Centre in Mayo&lt;/a&gt;.

While it claims to disregard &quot;religious belief&quot; it has a distinct Catholic bias. The director is a Catholic priest; it receives funding from the diocese; it hosts courses by Accord; it advocates the Galilee Community run by a religious order, Bock&#039;s friends, the Sisters of Mercy; it promotes special masses for couples celebrating wedding anniversaries; even the graphics it uses on its web site and brochures are distinctly Catholic/Christian.

I&#039;m suspect other recipients have links with the Catholic church too. That would make the payout greater than I originally calculated.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6730&#039;,&#039;Primal Sneeze&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You lads are working away grand there on your own, but I thought I&#8217;d just nip for a second to say I would have done more research prior to posting had I the time.</p>
<p>One of my suspicions was that Accord was not the sole religious group to benefit. Another was the <a href="http://www.familylifecentre.ie/index.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Family Life Centre in Mayo</a>.</p>
<p>While it claims to disregard &#8220;religious belief&#8221; it has a distinct Catholic bias. The director is a Catholic priest; it receives funding from the diocese; it hosts courses by Accord; it advocates the Galilee Community run by a religious order, Bock&#8217;s friends, the Sisters of Mercy; it promotes special masses for couples celebrating wedding anniversaries; even the graphics it uses on its web site and brochures are distinctly Catholic/Christian.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m suspect other recipients have links with the Catholic church too. That would make the payout greater than I originally calculated.
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		<title>By: Bock the Robber</title>
		<link>http://www.primalsneeze.com/2009/02/13/more-state-money-for-the-catholic-church/comment-page-1/#comment-6729</link>
		<dc:creator>Bock the Robber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The relevance to Accord is that this State is constitutionally forbidden to endow any religion and yet, in times of extreme fiscal hardship, is giving a huge amount of money to a denominational group which describes itself as &lt;i&gt;a Catholic organisation that aims to promote a deeper understanding of Christian marriage&lt;/i&gt;.  

That is Accord&#039;s &lt;i&gt;only&lt;/i&gt; stated aim.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6729&#039;,&#039;Bock the Robber&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The relevance to Accord is that this State is constitutionally forbidden to endow any religion and yet, in times of extreme fiscal hardship, is giving a huge amount of money to a denominational group which describes itself as <i>a Catholic organisation that aims to promote a deeper understanding of Christian marriage</i>.  </p>
<p>That is Accord&#8217;s <i>only</i> stated aim.
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		<title>By: aonghus</title>
		<link>http://www.primalsneeze.com/2009/02/13/more-state-money-for-the-catholic-church/comment-page-1/#comment-6728</link>
		<dc:creator>aonghus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:45:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I know very little about the negotiations.

But I don&#039;t see the relevance to Accord.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6728&#039;,&#039;aonghus&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know very little about the negotiations.</p>
<p>But I don&#8217;t see the relevance to Accord.
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		<title>By: Bock the Robber</title>
		<link>http://www.primalsneeze.com/2009/02/13/more-state-money-for-the-catholic-church/comment-page-1/#comment-6727</link>
		<dc:creator>Bock the Robber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:42:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>We&#039;re finding a measure of agreement which is always good.

The arrrangement was more than bizarre though.  It was driven by Woods&#039;s membership of Opus Dei and Bertie Ahern&#039;s relationship with the Sisters of Mercy in Eccles Street.  

Did you know that the church&#039;s negotiator, Sr Helena O Donoghue,  vetoed the Attorney General&#039;s attendance at the final two meetings, and that this demand was agreed to by Woods and Ahern?

Did you also know that Ahern used to work for Helena O Donoghue?&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6727&#039;,&#039;Bock the Robber&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;re finding a measure of agreement which is always good.</p>
<p>The arrrangement was more than bizarre though.  It was driven by Woods&#8217;s membership of Opus Dei and Bertie Ahern&#8217;s relationship with the Sisters of Mercy in Eccles Street.  </p>
<p>Did you know that the church&#8217;s negotiator, Sr Helena O Donoghue,  vetoed the Attorney General&#8217;s attendance at the final two meetings, and that this demand was agreed to by Woods and Ahern?</p>
<p>Did you also know that Ahern used to work for Helena O Donoghue?
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		<title>By: aonghus</title>
		<link>http://www.primalsneeze.com/2009/02/13/more-state-money-for-the-catholic-church/comment-page-1/#comment-6726</link>
		<dc:creator>aonghus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:33:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;those who actively protect, screen and shelter abusers are equally complicit.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Agreed. And the church is moving - slowly I concede - to address that.

And I hold no brief for that curious financial arrangement. The state had some liability - it failed in putting people in institutions it knew were (at least) overstretched and therefore open to abusers. But the financial arrangement was bizarre and wrong.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;6726&#039;,&#039;aonghus&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>those who actively protect, screen and shelter abusers are equally complicit.</p></blockquote>
<p>Agreed. And the church is moving &#8211; slowly I concede &#8211; to address that.</p>
<p>And I hold no brief for that curious financial arrangement. The state had some liability &#8211; it failed in putting people in institutions it knew were (at least) overstretched and therefore open to abusers. But the financial arrangement was bizarre and wrong.
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